Friday, November 04, 2005

Thanks Owen. Here's My Response...

I hope you don't mind but I moved your comments to the main board, as they are deserving of several answers:

Bill - you may want to watch the Katz documentary again, - Mike Gibbins can't remember the name of the drummer that he replaced in the Iveys -but you don't seem to hold that against him. Joey never played in the Iveys, but for some reason you feel it is inexcusable for him to get Ron Griffith's name wrong. Why aren't you holding Mike up to the same standards? Don't get me wrong - I have alot of respect for Mike - I never had the chance to meet him, I wish I would have.You say you have never met Joey, and that you don't want to. That is hardly forming your own opinion. I guess you let other people make up your mind for you? Will this post get edited from your blog? The one I left on Kevin's sure got deleted in a hurry.

Owen, thanks for the comments. I'd have to locate the filed-away Katz tape as I have long since gone DVD.

Anyway, I do remember Mike having a couple slip-ups as well (you'll note I did not put the entire "Dai Griffiths" blame on Joey either, but also on editing). Perhaps one big difference here is that the Katz documentary was "authorized" by Joey, who also claims to be the only "astronaut" capable of telling the Badfinger story. Mike never made such a claim. So yes, my standard for Joey is definitely higher than that for Mike. If Joey is the only self-proclaimed capable astronaut, he'd better be accurate in describing the moon.

No, I don't want to meet any musicians, actors or athletes (although I almost approached Joe Montana once in a moment of weakness). I admire artists for their artistry - not their personalities. And yes, the experiences of other people - and evidence - is sufficient for me to make up my mind. Especially if the witnesses are numerous, consistent, and in agreement. This is what is found in the "Without You" book. I also believe fans that know their favorite artist personally are more forgiving of blemishes than the artist's peers would be. This also is what is found in the "Without You" book; peers, professionals, and family evaluating the actions of each other - not fans. You'll note that there are many Michael Jackson fans who would walk through fire to defend him. The same with O.J. Simpson. They will say, "Hey, I've met him many, many times, and he's always been gracious to me. I can't believe he would do anything bad."

As far as deleting your comments - no way! I welcome your point of view and am delighted to discuss my position. The only comments I am deleting are spam. Thanks again.


Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Owen Kelley said...

Bill -
Thank you for your polite reply, I really do appreciate it, even if I don't agree 100% with your reply. I have felt that the Without You book isn't as hard on Joey as it is Kathie. There are times when I definitely feel that the writers personal opinion comes through very strongly, and it is apparent he has a dislike for the Mollands, especially in my opinion, Kathie. It is obvious that the Mollands also have a dislike for Dan. I don't have a personal opinion about Dan, as I have never met him, but it does seem that alot of people who haven't met Joey have had their opinions about him made solely by what they have read in Dan's book, and I think that is unfortunate. I did speak with Dan when I was waiting for my copy of Without You to be delivered, as it was very late in actually being distributed than what we were told when we initially placed our orders and paid for our books. Something that critics of Joey seem to forget about when they complain about how long it is taking for Joey's book to be produced. At least they haven't accepted any money from potenial buyers yet! Anyway, when I told Dan that I was acquainted with Joey, having driven for him and his band when they toured the Northwest a couple of times, he told me right up front that I may not like the book because it doesn't always paint Joey in the nicest light. Obviously he was aware that some parts of the book were going to offend the Mollands, and possibly Joeys fans. I read the book and took some things with a grain of salt, attributing them to a writer that had an axe to grind for one reason or the other, but I did feel that some of the things written about Kathie were included just to try to make people dislike her more than for any other reason. I felt this was a rather unproffesional manner of writing, but again, I took most of that with a grain of salt. I do know that Joey feels as though Dan has injected himself into Badfinger's business and he doesn't like it. Unfortunately for Joey the Ham Estate has apparently hired Dan to represent them, so Joey will probably be forced to deal with Dan as long as his relationship with the Ham estate continues. It can't be a comfortable arrangement for either the Mollands or Dan, but hopefully Dan will help Badfinger in general which will in turn help the Mollands and maybe an amicable arrangement can be made. I have a hard time seeing that at this point, but it would be in everyone's best interests if they could work together to promote Badfinger.

ßill said...

Owen, I always reply politely when approached politely - at least nowadays. I've recently been scanning my guestbook archives for material and I noticed we've had some exchanges in the past where we disagreed. I didn't find anything hostile on either side. However, admittedly, there are a couple people out there that can raise my blood pressure.

Anyway, I actually agree the "Without You" book is at times hard on the Mollands, and harder on Kathie than Joey. But haven't you noticed that the harshest comments about either of them are from the interviewees? The author provides segues between the comments, which are essentially paraphrases from the people interviewed. Did you notice that Matovina, despite knowing the Mollands, says nothing about them from a personal perspective? I didn't see anything like, "I thought they were this way" or "I saw them do this." Many or most authors with firsthand knowledge of the subjects will speak about the subjects from personal experience. It gives biographies a special edge and (probably) a marketability if the authors can make those obsevrations. Matovina did not. The only personal commentary I saw from Matovina was generally praise for Joey's music. In my opinion, music appeared to be Matovina's greater interest, not the politics.

I haven't really ragged on Joey for the delay in his books. I also remember my "Without You" book being a few months late. Although I wish Kathie would stop announcing that any minute they will be published - for the past 5 years. In August 2002, Kathie said one book was completely finished and would be on the shelves by Christmas that year. Three years is quite a delay.

Regarding your last comment about reconciliation, I can't see that happening either. Apparently (according to Joey) Matovina greeted Kathie at the recent DVD event, and Joey responded with anger. I don't know if you read his comments about this on Randy's guestbook before it went down, but there seems to be no possibility there.

Jeremy said...

I think the video documentary of Badfinger is cool and has lots of videos. I had copies of some of them before when I traded videos but they werent very good quality. What I'd like to see is a video anthology of Badfinger released with all their promotional stuff on it. Have you heard if anyone is going to put something like this together?

ßill said...

Are you asking me or Owen?

You might want to scan the links on the right side of the main page. I haven't heard anything about a Badfinger video anthology, although I'd like to see one, too.

"Spliff" said...

I think you're carrying the
astronaut bit a little far. I
never took it to mean he was the
ONLY one who could tell the
story, and not Mike, or the others
were they alive. I think it was an
"unless you were there, you don't
have a full appreciation of what
was going on" statement.

ßill said...

In a tight context, Joey claimed that only a Badfinger member can accurately say what it was like to be a Badfinger member. Well, of course. And only Joey can say what it is like to be Joey. In my opinion, the "Without You" book doesn't attempt to get inside Joey's head.

But in a broad context, which was more Joey's point, he's saying only a Badfinger member can tell the Badfinger story. That is false. Joey hasn't told an accurate Badfinger story yet, with all his faulty memories, vague details, and variations on single incidents. Before the book came out (and afterward) I used to collect Joey's interviews in the hope of making sense out of Badfinger's history. All I garnered from the effort was a headache.

I didn't take his statement to mean Pete, Tom or Mike couldn't tell the story, but Pete, Tom and Mike didn't make that declaration either.

Spliff said...

I read on this blog that you never
met Joey, and these guys aren't
your heroes, so what is this, a
hobby? Do you have other blogs to
discredit other people you never

Spliff said...

P.S. I think Kevin's blog is
being cancelled, due to inactivity.

ßill said...

A hobby? Sort of. I wouldn't have taken the hobby up if not for the incredibly unfounded criticisms of the book.

If you feel Joey's honesty is being discredited then perhaps he should be more consistent? And straightforward?

I have no idea what's going on with Kevin's blog. I haven't posted anything new for a while on mine because of other priorities recently. But blogs normally aren't "cancelled" for inactivity.

Spliff said...

I seem to notice a particular theme
where certain people are concerned.
They must monitor the Justesen site
continually, due to all these
things THEY SAY are posted, and
then withdrawn. Why is the Dan side
whining now about the B Desh DVD
event? Did Joey take the last bread
stick or something? If you are
REALLY interested in imparting the
truth, you shouldn't mind repeating
what was said. You certainly
haven't been afraid to quote Joey
so far. Let us see if this was
unreasonable behavior, or is this
just a Dan fan rant with no basis
other than to cause trouble?

ßill said...

I'm not clear on what your complaint is. Unless I missed something, I hadn't noticed Matovina whining about the DVD event. It was Joey who complained. And yes, I periodically check Randy's guestbook (I never said I didn't). Anyway, I have no problem putting up Joey's post. The only reason I haven't is because it falls outside of the book topic, which is the focus of this blog. However, if you haven't read it and you think I misrepresented what Joey posted, I'll put it up for you to judge for yourself.

Spliff said...

I would appreciate that. I didn't
say Dan himself was whining, but
there were a few in his camp who
were making noises, acting like
they had some problem with Joey
about THIS now. I would love to
know what the post said, that they
should feel was so upsetting.

Anonymous said...

I have not yet read the book, but plan to. Based on the reviews, it does appear to be written by a huge fan of the band; one who is baffled and saddened by not one but TWO suicides. I would suggest that it is a bit unusual for the core writers of a band to both kill themselves, and rather natural for a writer to want to examine the reasons behind it. It seems as though rivalry, greed, secret dealings, and outright robbery were elements in this situation, and if Joey Molland stands out, it may be because he appears to be perfectly willing to promote himself as "Mr. Badfinger" (Katz quote), accepted an award for a classic song by the deceased members without acknowledging them or their families, invites his wife into band matters to the point of stealing master tapes, and is now trying to discredit what by most accounts is a meticulously researched and sincere book that delves into the issues behind Badfinger's tragic problems. I would question the man's motives, too.

Giordan said...

'if Joey Molland stands out, it may be because he appears to be perfectly willing to promote himself as "Mr. Badfinger" (Katz quote), accepted an award for a classic song by the deceased members without acknowledging them or their families, invites his wife into band matters to the point of stealing master tapes, and is now trying to discredit what by most accounts is a meticulously researched and sincere book that delves into the issues behind Badfinger's tragic problems. I would question the man's motives, too.'

Ummm, is Joey not ENTITLED to promote himself as Mr Badfinger? I would have thought being a member of the group for a good five years and singing and writing about half their best songs would give him a quite reasonable claim. Your alternative candidate? Glen Sherba?

As for the 'Without You' award, at least Molland was on the record. I am a little puzzled as to why Ham's daughter thinks she and Tom's son ought to have accepted it.

Gina said...

Thank you, Bill for collating so much information and letting people with any common sense and compassion understand the story themselves. I was amazed at how many Badfinger associates Dan was able to interview to get the full story. Of course Joey would never portray himself or Yoko...I mean Kathie negatively. But come on, he knew and has always known what the right thing to do was and still refuses to do it. Why should Pete and Tom's children have accepted the ASCAP? Because they are the survivors of the two men WHO WROTE IT. Nothing, I mean NOTHING positive has come of the creation of Badfinger outside of the music and the friends and family who loved them who are forever connected. The rest of the legacy is one of tragedy and a seemingly limitless supply of underhandedness. So what better way to honor the composers of Without You than by putting aside the greed, the lawyers, the fame grubbing than to have their children accept the award. Oh, and let them speak. It could have been one shining moment in the story. But we all know what really happened.

I do wish that Dan's book is turned into a movie so that the world can be reminded of (or introduced to) Badfinger's music. Unfortunately, it's probably a hard sell. Studios like movies with happy endings, and their story certainly has never had one.